January 30, 2012 at 5:18 pm #74221Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
**warning** small rant coming up!
Some of you will know that I’m desperately trying to get an agency in to cover some hours and I’m a no hoist sort of person for so many reasons.
Of course, trying to get any for to agency in is a nightmare. First one lasted about 30 seconds after stating (illegally) they had a blanket ban on any sort of ‘lifting’ that didn’t use a hoist.
I transfer by a bear hug type of lift. Anyway, agency 2 actually stayed to listen. Still don’t think they will cover my main hours but are going to try to do a sit-in where the occasion might arise that they need to get me out of bed and into my chair manually.
A few things I thought I would share. I videoed me getting out of bed and so on (well PA did whilst hubs did the moves). Then I screen captured , from the video on good old Mac, the key parts and made a document describing with the pictures, how I move. I then showed the pictures and videos to the agency. They said it was brilliant and gave them a clear idea to risk assess without putting me though the physical showing. So, perhaps worth doing for new PAs and so or for anywhere you have to be moved from A to B …
Second thing I heard (and it’s been about 6 yrs since I did a manual handling course) that any movement where the carer places their hands under the client’s shoulders (to steady, lift or support) is not allowed at all. Considering a lot of people with MD use under the arm techniques I thought this was quite scary – how on earth can you stay upright if that is the place you need support! Apparently, any shoulder movement is ‘banned’ as such because it is considered abuse, dislocates shoulders and injures carer’s necks if they lift under the person’s arms. The last ones I can perhaps see some logic behind (although statistically I am skeptical) but to say I would have a case for abuse if they held me under my arms is crazy! They said, in my case their is no other way so the carers will have to give it a go and see how they get on.
I said hoists tend to dislocate my limbs and cause lots of joint injury and strain my muscles and I’ve never had any shoulder injuries with bear hugs! I’ve never had a PA who’s been injured on their neck or anywhere doing this as far as I know … so it’s a recent addition to the H&S risk assessment process that is a nightmare.January 30, 2012 at 6:17 pm #84257Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
I can understand your frustrations and recently I recruited someone who had been at a rehab place in quite a senior position. She didn’t get further than me training her up and although she didn’t admit this, I am convinced it was the manual handling that made her change her mind.
I agree the underarm support is frowned upon but like you, there is no other way to do some manoeuvres. Funny enough, my PA injured her back whilst transferring me using the mobile hoist I have to get me in my wheelchair rather than the transfers that involve lifting me a bit. So you can hurt yourself using equipment or in fact doing everyday movements such as twisting too quickly.
This is an area which is a bit grey isn’t it? I have lost count of the number of times people have gasped when they have seen the way I am moved but sometimes the more equipment the more difficult it is for both parties, especially when you have a body that never sits in the sling the same way twice, cannot hold their head up or talk/breathe in mid air. And don’t get me started on landing in the right position…
I hate using this phrase too much but common sense should play a part in these issues, you have to be realistic and I cannot see the problem if everything is thought out carefully and sensibly. Great idea to make a video, I hope this helps and you find an agency that is willing.
I hear ya Criptic
A learning experience is one of those things that say, “You know that thing you just did? Don’t do that.” - Douglas Adamssar78ModeratorPosts: 2,246Joined: 05/03/2015January 31, 2012 at 2:04 pm #84260Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
I think the way things are going a carer can help providing then never have to actually touch you. When I was working if I stumbled I had to be lifted up, one of the security guards refused to do this because by standing behind me and pacing his arms under my arm pits meant his hands were in my boobage area and he did not want to be accused of sexual harraseement/abuse … … I let that go but …
Several years ago an elderly neighbour had carers from an agency in and out through out the day. Ambulances were appearing regularly and being the concerned neighbour I asked her son how she was, could I visit her in hospital. He looked bemused then explained, if the carer found her on the floor then were not allowed to touch her but had to call an ambulance to check her over and pick her up and put her back in her chair. What an utter waste of emergency resources!
Taking a video of how you need help is amazing … it shows and tells without misinterpretation.
I'm always the animal, my body's the cage
I blog about nothingness www.amgroves.comAMParticipantPosts: 4,751Joined: 05/03/2015February 1, 2012 at 6:41 pm #84259Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
I was *made* to do a manual handling course at the school my son is at.. He has Duchenne…. What an eye opener! My biggest annoyance/shock/utter disbelief was being told no one would pick him up off the floor if he fell over and if he didn’t have the strength to get up or crawl over to a piece of furniture etc they would call for the paramedics! I feel your utter frustration in all of this and hope the agency can come up with some help for you xFebruary 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm #84258Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
It’s so difficult isn’t it – even the ambulance service are now told not to pick people up of the floor apparently. My neighbour (war veteran) had to help his similar aged friend pick up his wife of the floor as 999 refused! Disgusting.
When I did work for the red cross, there was a time when caring /emergency work just considered lifting and moving etc as part of the job – and staff and volunteers had to keep high levels of physical fitness and health as a requirement to be able to do the job or they failed the exams to continue. I did stuff with young people’s groups, drama and simulation work where I often was lifted from my chair to the floor or physically carried out of swimming pools and even canoes and stuff! Nobody battered an eyelid and nobody got hurt – it was just done sensibly.
There are lots of professions where people have to lift and carry and professions where people have to be physically capable – nowadays people thing that just because hoists are available it means anyone and everyone is suitable for care work when they have neither the aptitude, common sense or fitness levels :-/
Thanks for your support folks :-))February 4, 2012 at 1:55 pm #84261Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
Well, agency 2 now say because of my ‘unorthodox’ way of moving and ‘court actions’ (based on lifting under shoulders) they won’t come near me unless I use a hoist.
Back to square one. :twisted:February 5, 2012 at 6:48 am #84264Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
You’re not going to like me here, but I am the OHS representative for my team at work (yes, as a PCA) and my mob also won’t do bear hug type transfers.. unless the client can safely self transfer or can be transferred with the assistance of a pelican (standing/walking) belt (ie an assisted stand), or can transfer with the assistance of a sliding board, then a family member must complete the transfer, or be hoisted.
That said, I DO bear hug transfers with my partner, and have never put my back out doing them. He weighs a mere 50kg (sorry, you guys can work that out in pounds or ounces or whatever you work in lol) and I need to bear hug transfer him into and out of the car, and usually do them between wheelchair/bed/commode chair etc. It saves an awfully large amount of time!! Also, when he goes to an optometrist/dentist/hospital appointment, they usually don’t have hosit facilities available, or at hand, to transfer, so bear hug transfer it must be.
I agree as much as the next person that the OHS rules have gone over the top, but I realise they are there for a reason, but as already mentioned, a little common sense and discretion is required.
Also I would point out that most of these rules are thought up by OTs who are simply textbook trained.. they have no concept of what it is like to live a disability. My partner has had several run-ins with a particular OT who I have also had to deal with for my work.. she basically told the carers that they were not to remove his footplates to allow him to use his wee bottle.. he pointed out to the carers and co-ordinator that if he was not allowed the footplates off while using the bottle, he would end up wetting his pressure cushion because the opening of the bottle would be pointing down, then the carers would have to hoist him off the chair, back to bed, change his pants, dry the cushion, hoist him back to the chair, which would take them another however long.. they quickly started removing the footplates again. How hard is it???
They also refused to massage his feet before he got up, citing “repetitive movements” – here’s where having a girlfriend who works as a PCA providing percussion therapy to cystic fibrosis patients comes into its own.. he asked why PCAs could hit someone for 45 minutes straight, yet they couldn’t massage his feet for 2 minutes, at a suitable height. They quickly turned that one over too.
Now there is just the concept of requiring two people to get him up in the morning.. at the moment he has 2 carers in the morning to hoist him out of bed into his chair, for 1/2 hour, then the first person stays for the rest of the service, and the other leaves. Not entirely sure why this is necessary either.. and it wastes time that he could be using for more services, rather than using up 3.5 hours a week just to cover a 2 person service. Yet, when he gets hoisted in the evening to be put in his commode chair for toileting and showering, he only needs 1 person.. go figure it.
I pride myself on having worked in my position for just short of 10 years, and have never had an injury at work.. and guess what.. I have never actually injured myself transferring my partner either!! I have done it adjusting the registration plate on my car.. but never lifting him. LOLAngelicPrincessParticipantPosts: 85Joined: 21/12/2010February 5, 2012 at 1:18 pm #84262Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
I also use a standing transfer (bear hug) and am kind of stuck with my current agency as they are the only one that agreed to this after numerous risk assessments. The breakthrough for me was that they employed a physio who came and saw what I was doing – and also my own physio put in good words for me. Anyone who tells you that any kind of transfer is “illegal” doesn’t understand the law. Every action neeeds to be risk assessed – from the point of view of both the client and the care staff. In my case I was able to show that alternative transfers were either dangerous or impractical. As part of the deal the agency must send me PAs who are fit and active and well trained in back care. I have alternatives: a hoist, slide boards, transfer belts etc available if anyone chooses to use them (and noone ever does – it’s more likely that I insist because I don’t feel they are good enough at the stand). They also have a “let them fall” policy and I have insisted that this be changed in my case. It does help that I weigh only 45kg and I control my weight through a strict diet in order to keep to this. Having to only use a hoist or slide boards would be very restrictive although I know other people do this and there will come a time when I have to also.
Feel free to PM me if you want any more advice or thoughts on how to deal with this. It was a very difficult time for me when I was under scrutiny from the agency but I am in a fairly good place with it all now. It’s true though that H&S are two very dirty words in my hearing!
AmeenaAmeenaParticipantPosts: 33Joined: 29/01/2011February 5, 2012 at 4:47 pm #84265Re: Have I said how much I hate moving and handling ‘laws’?
Yes, I was told on manual handling course that these lifts aren’t illegal because in some circumstances ie in an emergency, they need to be used, so if anyone is saying they are illegal they don’t know what hey are talking about
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